Flashcards
TRINITY
Cards in this deck (18)
- 1The Trinity A Key Christian doctrineone God 3 persons
are not 3 separate God’s-
they are each fully God,
they coexist
and are coeternal.
They are consubstantial with each other. - 2WHY THE NEED FOR A DOCTRINE?3 HERESIES
adoptionism –(Jesus only became God’s son at Baptism)
Sabellianism – Jesus was divine but not human
Arianism – Jesus was the highest of all beings but not of one substance with God - 3THE TRINITY IN THE BIBLE ’OT God the Father is often referred to in the plural –Elohim
in Genesis god said ‘let US make humankind in OUR own image.’
NT the baptism of Jesus demonstrates the presence of all 3 ‘persona’
Jesus is often referred to as God.
In John 1 ‘In the beginning was the word and the word was God ‘and all things were created through him.
Paul says ‘though he was in the form of God he did not exploit his equality with God.
Jesus sends the disciples to baptism ‘In the name of Father, son and spirit.
Paul also writes ‘the spirit of God’ and ‘the spirit of Christ’. - 4WHY NOT TRITHEISM?HOWEVER THIS CANNNOT BE TRITHEISM BECAUSE
The Bible also teaches God is one. The Shema prayer in Deuteronomy: Hear o Israel the lord your God is ONE LORD.’
This is also repeated by Jesus and Paul ‘The Lord our God, the Lord is one.’ - 5THE FILIOQUE CONTROVERSY the CREEDS (PROCEED - TO COME FORTH FROMNICENE CREED 365 AD 'we believe in the Holy Spirit'
CONSTANTINOPLE 381 'We believe in the Holy Spirit .. who proceeds from the Father.'
TOLEDO 589 AD ' We believe in the Holy Spirit, who proceeds from the Father and the son!' - 6WHY THE ADDITION?Western church very influenced by St Augustine who said HS proceeded both Father and Son.
Used analogy of Love - the Holy Spirit is a bond of love between father and son so must proceed from both. - 7SOME BIBLICAL SUPPORT FOR AUGUSTINE'S IDEAJohn 14:26 tells us, "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name..."
John 15:26 tells us, "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, He will testify about me." See also John 14:16 and Philippians 1:19. These Scriptures seem to indicate that the Spirit is sent out by both the Father and the Son - 8BUT IT CAUSED A LOT OF TROUBLE WHY? ( 5 PATRIARCHS ROME, CONSTANTINOPLE, ALEXANDRIA, ANTIOCH AND JERUSALEM)ISSUE FOR THE EASTER CHURCH
1. annoyed that Rome had taken it upon themselves to add something to a creed that had not been agreed.
2.If the Churches have met and decided the main tenants of a creed –no one group can suddenly decide to make changes.
3. danger in heresies and false teachings taking hold.
4. did not agree with Augustine’s ways of describing the Trinity using human experiences.
5. This denies that the Trinity is incomprehensible in structure. - 9THE EASTER Orthodox Church BELIEVESThe father alone is the source of divinity
the son alone is begotten of the father
the spirit proceeds from the father alone - 10KARL BARTH AGREES WITH FILIOQUE OBJECTIVE AND SUBJECTIVE revealing of GODGod had revealed himself in 2 movement:
a) In the Son – the objective unveiling of God
b) In the spirit – the subjective reception or imparting - 11KARL BARTH OBJECTIVE REVEALING OF GOD NOT ENOUGH - NEEDS A SUBJECTIVE RECOGNITION - USES THIS ANECDOTE2 men witness the crucifixion. Man1 says ‘there is a common criminal being executed’. Man 2 says ‘There is the son of God dying for me’.. Barth says unless the spirit imparted this to man 2 he would not have been able to make that statement. The imparting of this spirit proceeds from both the father and the son.
Thus he agrees with the ‘filioque’ addition. - 12KARL BARTH - BETTER TO USE SEINSWEISEo ‘seinsweise’ which translates as ‘modes of being’ or ‘ways of being’, to replace the word ‘person’.
o It is closer to the Early Church Father’s description of the Trinity. When the Church in the creeds used the phrase ‘one God in 3 persons’ they DID NOT intend for people to think of God in 3 separate personalities
o Thus, we should reject the phrase ‘one god in three persons’ when talking about the Trinity since we are in danger of Tritheism. - 13POSITIVES OF BARTH 'unimpaired unity but also unimpaired distinction'1. Barth says it moves us away from person which implies 3 different entities
2. It allows for understanding the immanent (what the God is) and Economic (what God does) ideas of the Trinity
3. He distinguishes between fr, son and spirit by using the work logos asarko for the son. (word without flesh)
4. then he distinguishes between son of God and son of man - (som is found in historical Jesus - but son of God is the eternal word) - 14PROBLEMS WITH BARTHo Sabellianism? Is Barth’s phrase ‘one God in 3 modes or ways of being’ a form of this heresy?
o Jurgen Moltmann believed that at the very least Barth’s idea opened the door for modalism stating that Barth’s proposal of ‘one God in 3 modes is a victory for Sabellian modalism.’ This is heresy
o The idea of ‘modes’ rather than ‘persons’ does not distinguish between the Father, son and spirit. (all though they are consubstantial they are also distinct from each other!)
o It sees that the Father, son and spirit as one God in eternal repetition but this means that they had to exist one after the other and not at the same tie. Therefore, God is not eternal. - 15ISSUES OF ANALYSIS TRINITY AND MONOTHEISM CHRISTIANITY IS NOT MONOTHEISTICTo talk about 3 as 1 is a logical nonsense
It makes not sense to say that the father is not the son, the son is not the father, the spirit is not the son or father and to then say they are all consubstantial (same substance)
The doctrine suggests that there are 3 separate God’s making Christianity polytheistic.
At LEAST for the 3 decades Jesus was on earth he had to be separate from the father – they must have been 2 separate beings. (who is Jesus talking to when he prays? Himself?)
The Unitarian Church accept that Jesus was human and not God
We see the idea of 3 separate aspects of universal deity in other traditions such as Hinduism (Brahman) Its not new – but it isn’t monotheistic. Why be so attached to monotheim – why not just embrace Tritheism
The Bible does not even use the word Trinity - - 16ISSUES OF ANALYSIS TRINITY AND MONOTHEISM CHRISTIANITY IS MONOTHEISTICTHE IDEA of 3 separate Gods is regarded as heresy within the mainstream Christian groups.
There are many supporting Biblical texts which suggest the presence of the Trinity. (GIVE THEM)
Different attempts by theologians to use analogy to explain the Trinity show HOW it must be so and how it can be logical – Augustine used the idea of 3 parts of a human being –mind, body and will – but all making up the same person.
The Bible says God is love. Love only exists in relationship – The father loves the son, the son love the father and the HS is the love they exchange.
Barth recognises the difficulty of persons since we think ‘personality’ and maybe his idea of ‘ways or modes of being’ is a better way to think about the trinity. It could be argued that he is successful and proves how it is possible to have a ‘triune’ God.
Cannot claim Trithesim when quite clearly the Bible and Jesus and Paul all recognise that God is ONE. - 17ISSUES FOR ANALYSIS NO NEED FOR DOCTRINE OF TRINITY TO BE CHRISTIANIt is so illogical that it would be better for Christians to reject it. Karen Kilby ‘The doctrine of the Trinity so easily appears to be an intellectual puzzle with no relevance to the faith of most Christians.’
Far more important to consider the person of Jesus on whose teaching and example Christianity is based than get lost in whether the Jesus is the same as the Father or whether the spirit proceeds only the father. These details have little relevance to ordinary believers.
It is so confusing that it has caused more division among Christians than unity – so many heresies such as TRITHEISM, ADOPTIONISM AND ARIANISM show how misleading a doctrine it is.
The ‘filioque’ controversy which caused the Great Schism dividing the Western Church (who added that the spirit proceeded both father and son) and the Eastern Church who remained with the original belief that the Holy Spirit originated only from the Father – illustrates that there is diversity of opinion still today .
Why not just embrace Tritheism. Hinduism manages it without a problem Braham Vishnu Shieva, The trimurti - 18ISSUES FOR ANALYSIS DO NEED DOCTRINE OF TRINITY TO BE CHRISTIANKARL BARTH said we that we do:
It is essential to believe in a Triune God if we are to claim that there is ONE God and we are monotheistic. It makes sense of lots of Biblical passages – which point to Father, Son and Spirit yet claim there is one God.
It is part of Christian expression of belief – the sign of the cross, baptism ‘in the name of the fr, son and spirit.’
It illustrates that God is a mystery that we cannot fully comprehend BUT it does provide a model for human relationships as individuals and community. God is seen as a community of 3 persons coexisting in a coequal relationship of eternal love.
It makes sense in the context of faith and with the multiple scripture passages that support it and the Bible does state that God is ONE and there is evidence that this is expressed in 3 ‘persons’